NCM 712 by LG Chem: E66A and E78 battery cells in detail

LG Chem pouch battery cell
LG Chem pouch battery cell
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Barry
1 month ago

Can I assume VW’s mention of high manganese content cells (at Power Day) refers to NCM 712 cells? Or is the VW statement too vague to make any assumptions?

Marc
1 month ago
Reply to  Barry

High manganese cells typically refers to cathode-chemistries where there is more manganese than nickel. NCM 712 ist still “high nickel”.

Here is a good overview about high manganese cells: https://cellsiders.substack.com/p/manganese-rich-cathode-chemistries

Last edited 1 month ago by Marc
Sams
1 month ago

Thanks Pedro. Here you talk about energy density around 260 Wh/kg, but cars equipped with those batteries like the Zoe or Kona are more around 150-170 Wh/kg. This is a huge difference, where does it come from, is one at the cell level and the other at the pack level (with electronic connexions and cooling system)? But still, the difference is huge, lots of energy lost somewhere it seems.

Freddy
1 month ago
Reply to  Sams

yeahp… the packing of the cells in modules and pack affects heavily the gravimetric and volumetric energy wise…

Stefan
1 month ago
Reply to  Freddy

[Deleted]

Last edited 1 month ago by Stefan
Stefan
1 month ago
Reply to  Sams

Just an anal correction: between the cell-level and pack-level, the energy is not lost, but the volume is. Since you need filler volume between (groups of) cells with all the miscellaneous you mentioned.

Freddy
1 month ago

The korean battery companies should be heavilly affected by the shift announced at VW battery/energy day… when can we have your insights on this Pedro?

nono538
1 month ago

Hello Pedro,
Do you have any details about LG cells specifications of Renault E-Tech PHEV (LG pack 400V 9,8kWh) on Captur or Megane Estate ? Do you believe they are similar to E78 cells from ZOE? Thanks for comments, always appreciate the exchanges.

Famlin
1 month ago

: Kind request, can you please change the dimension to standard terms like length, width, height. Thickness is somewhat confusing.
For pouch cells, the max height is the height.

I thought only SK Innovation was using pouch format, even the LG Chem is using?

No wonder, VW dumped all of them and their pouch for much proven voluminous prismatic battery. Also the Koreans dont buy imported vehicles, so why should VW buy their products.

Nice to see cobalt content going down.

antrik
16 days ago
Reply to  Famlin

LG is the major proponent of pouch cells. They are used in a vast number of EVs from various global makers. While VW uses mostly canned prismatic cells, they haven’t “dumped” LG’s pouch cells either.

Famlin
1 month ago

If it costs “NCM 712 is estimated at around 80 euros per kWh” at cell level, then how much will it cost at pack level, may be 110 euros. If so then its around $130 / kWh.

Thats very impressive for high density NCM.

Famlin
1 month ago

With VW moving to prismatic, we are narrowing down to 2 formats.
Prismatic vs Cylindrical.

Has anyone thought about Hexagonal prism or Octagonal prism. These 2 shapes will also leave some place in between just like cylindrical.
That would be interesting. I dont think about triangular prism, but 4 triangles next to each other will be like square.

Game of battery shapes.

antrik
16 days ago
Reply to  Famlin

Either you have rolled electrodes (cylindrical) or more or less flat ones (prismatic). There is no other option.

Marcel
1 month ago

Thanks Pedro. The upcoming battery free-for-all that’s going to happen over the next 5 r so years is going to be amazing to watch. Which car companies will lock into specific NCM cells and get stuck with batteries that are too expensive?

With LMNO, NCMA, LFMP, and then other tech like solid state coming along, car makers are going to have to make their designs flexible enough to accommodate quick switches to different cell technology.

antrik
16 days ago
Reply to  Marcel

Switching chemistries is not hard, as long as they don’t come in different cell formats.

Davide Cavaliere
1 month ago

Hi Pedro,
Thank you for the information.
Do you have any info on empirical data obtained testing these batteries (charge/discharge cycles depending on temperature and C-rate)?
I am looking for detailed info on cells measurements, but I am not sure where to look for.

Davide Cavaliere
1 month ago
Reply to  Pedro Lima

Ok, thank you.
I was looking to some deep benchmarking of these cells (and other too), not only the nominal voltage (V), capacity (Ah) and energy (Wh), but also the charging/discharging cycles measurement data.
I am working on BMS and Automotive Electrification in general, so I am looking for this data for my job. I guess that the only way to obtain such data is to get it measured by some benchmarking company (A2mac1 or similar), I am not sure the manufacturers can disclose such measured data to anyone.