Possible upgrades with NCM 712 battery cells from LG Chem (updated)

LG Chem pouch battery cell
LG Chem pouch battery cell
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sola
1 year ago

Great stuff.

I would really like an upgraded Ioniq, especially if it had some stronger motor as well.

I agree that the Kona doesn’t need more range (well, the 64 kWh edition, that is) but it needs lower prices. The 64 kWh edition is uncomfortably close to the Tesla Model 3 SR+ in price.

p-run
1 year ago
Reply to  Pedro Lima

I just do not understand why Ioniq has such poor battery energy density with same 622 cells as competitors. It looks strange…

Ricardo
1 year ago

Great article as always thank you very much

Giora
1 year ago

Hi Pedro,
I did raise the possibility of the NCM712 cells in the current European Kona, but thinking more deeply I tend to agree with you that possible explanation 1 is more plausible.
To use NCM712 cells in the 64kWh battery would mean using less cells, probably around 234 of them which may mean ~78s3p arrangement. However 78 in series means lower battery nominal voltage (285-288 V?), this lower voltage may considerably restrict the max. allowable power, both charging and consumed.
Just a thought…

Tom Houlden
1 year ago
Reply to  Pedro Lima

Thanks for another 2 great articles.

When my friend’s 500e lease ended last year, she paid LESS for a Tesla 3 “std+” with leather & wheel upgrade, than for a base cloth eKona, since the latter were going for $5k over list.

& you’re right tires don’t make much difference, if any: Both me & that friend replaced our stock 500e LRR all-season tires with 2 sizes wider (same diameter) standard RR all-seasons with NO measurable range difference. Granted, the LRRs were heavier, but if there’s no net power savings there’s also no point!

Giora
1 year ago
Reply to  Pedro Lima

Yes, thanks, slipped my mind! same number of lighter cells with about the same cell capacity and in the same arrangement. increased range mainly due to lighter car, and larger cooling passages as a bonus thanks to the smaller cells.

Richard Petek
1 year ago

The Hyundai Ioniq with the 28 kWh battery was able to charge at 70-75 kW. The newer 38 kWh pack is barely capable of doing beyond 40 kW.
All this advance in capacity is pretty much worthless if these batteries won’t also have a 2 – 2,5 C rapid charging rate.
Which means – 50 kWh batteries being capable of charging at 100 kW and more. Without that, they are still short-to-mid range commuter cars.
Look what Tesla’s Model 3 SR+ is capable of doing (peak charge rate of up to 170 kW, a sustained charging speed way beyond 100 kW) – and use it as the baseline.

sola
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Petek

Agreed, the sustained fast charge rate should be over 100kw for any serious long range EVs.

The Ioniq is probably limited by the limited, air cooling system of the battery.

Giora
1 year ago
Reply to  sola

The 38.3 kWh Ionic has liquid cooling system of the battery

sola
1 year ago
Reply to  Giora

Ah, I have not heard about them switching to liquid cooling on this model facelift. That is great and will make the Ioniq an even better long-term investment.

However, the fact that it can charge slower than the previous, air-cooled model is very strange. The car should be able to cool the battery during fast-charging and thus allow for higher sustained rates.

Giora
1 year ago
Reply to  sola

Yes, seems to be against the trend. In my opinion it is a result of the fact it is a face-lift and not a newly designed model plus the fact of switching cells’ type from high power density to high energy and lower power density.
However, using 50 kW station, which is the majority of stations available nowadays, the difference in waiting time (for, say, additional 150 km) is minimal to nonexistent.

carlos
1 year ago

Love the article, as always. Fantastic detail.

Pretty sure the Zoe40 has a WLTP range of 300km/186miles though?

I’d be extremely happy with a car with a 300 mile WLTP range and 100kW charging for the occasional long trip. I wouldn’t seriously need anything beyond that, ever.

Pajda
1 year ago

Hi Pedro, do you have any informations about this new LG Chem NMC 712 cells parameters? LGY E63B cell have 65Ah nominal capacity with ca 500 Wh/l and 242 Wh/kg energy density. You estimated values for Kona 84 kWh battery leads to ca 620 Wh/l or 80 Ah capacity in LG Chem pouch cell with the same size.

Pajda
1 year ago
Reply to  Pedro Lima

Thx ๐Ÿ™‚ In my scepticism I was thinking that pouch cells with >600 Wh/l energy density are still not in mass production. But ZOE “50” seems to use them. I was thinking that they just redesign the pack for using more cells, but the amount of cells and modules in “50” battery is the same as for “40” version with 500 Wh/l LG E63B cells. Maybe the cells/modules can be slightly bigger and so the density is slightly lower than 620 Wh/l calculated for the same size, but still it is great progress. Hope we can soon find at least LG Chem marking/name for this new cell.

Lars
1 year ago

Hi Pedro
You showed what would happen if the NCM 622 cells would be replaced by NCM 712 cells, but how would it look like if the NCM 622 cells would be replaced by NCM 811 cells?

Gareth Claase
1 year ago
Reply to  Pedro Lima

Absolutely first class article as always. Am I right that, all other things equal, the new batteries should be cheaper due to lower expensive cobalt content? Is the difference likely to be significant?

Gareth Claase
1 year ago
Reply to  Pedro Lima

I thought the โ‚ฌ100/kWh referred to the operating cost of the batteries, and the reason EVs until now remained so expensive was because, especially given the relatively low volumes sold until recently, each was carrying a whack of capex related to building new factories, production lines and supply chains. It would be slightly odd if they weren’t. Those costs have to be recouped somehow.

Rapid battery tech progress is actually unhelpful just from this point of view, as you have to amortise the capital cost of developing, for example, 523 batteries over the small volume of EVs sold with them before that battery chemistry becomes obsolete (means you have to really load up the capex charge on early EV prices, as you can’t guarantee you will be able to do so over a long period and large production run).

Which is why, with the huge step up in volumes expected, and in fact already being experienced, I’m expecting costs to fall very rapidly by mid century. Do you agree?

Gareth Claase
1 year ago
Reply to  Gareth Claase

I mean mid decade…

Pasi
1 year ago

Interesting.. Also here in Finland MY20 Kona Electric 64kwh got range increase to 484km but battery warranty was dropped from 200000km to 160000km. Could it be coincident or could it be related to battery chemistry?

Famlin
1 year ago

I believe both prismatic and pouch are cuboidal in shape. Only difference is that pouch bulges a little bit while prismatic does not. Will the pouch bulge uniformly so that the entire space/volume is utilized.

Michal Grabowski
1 year ago

Well, i consider 40kwh to be quite inadequate, so i would welcome increasing the SR Models range. At 50kwh they are becoming more pratical, and should be relatively inexpensive. On a LR front I still consider 64kwh to be a bit low. Bjorn tested its Winter Highway range to be about 250km, and that is definitly not enough. So – keep the current geometry, make SR more mainstream, increase LR, to make them more on par with ICE vehicles.

martin.tuky
9 months ago

Great article.
I would like to ask a possibly dumb question: why do most ev systems use 96, 98 cells in series? Why use 96s3p and not 144s2p?
I looked at specs for DC chargers and they seem to support 350-750V output even for 50kW models.
Is it just off-shelf component availabilty for power electronics, or is there more benefit to keeping the voltage lower?

Thank you

Martin

AndreiRev
3 months ago

I just ordered the new Kona facelift and I cannot stop asking myself if there is any chance to have the new NCM 711 battery