43 kWh battery for the Renault Zoe

43 kWh battery for the Renault Zoe
Subscribe
Notify of
11 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
sapcmc
4 years ago

It is a nice project but at retail prices just in batteries we would be talking of about 8500€ plus BMS, labour and so on.

But a great idea that shows it is possible in future to upgrade to bigger sized packs.

I could definitely consider upgrading my ZOE to 60 kWh in 5 years if that would cost me by then 5000€.

sapcmc
4 years ago
Reply to  Pedro Lima

That is wishful thinking! Evolution will move fast but as fast as that I am afraid. In China there are also new battery factories being built that will be about 1/2 of capacity of Teslas Gigafactory. We will need at least 10 more giga factories to be able to supply enough batteries for prices to be below cost of a gas car.

Sia
4 years ago
Reply to  sapcmc

Keep your old battery, and add another 24 kWh to it. So buy an 24 kWh pack from these people (should cost about $5,000 in 3 years) and put it in the trunk. It will probably need its own charger. This way the amount of retrofitting is minimal and you can do that yourself. And you have not thrown away your old back which is probably down to 18 kWh. The packaging can also be minimal.

You lose some trunk space, but your range is now up to 240 km (150 mi), and you are back in business. You may want to use the Leaf’s charger, which then will allow you to fast charge the auxiliary pack.

James
4 years ago

Hi Pedro,
Your knowledge of cells is unsurpassed.
Where can I see more information on the 3,500mAh 18650 cells from “Sanyo/Panasonic, LG Chem and Samsung SDI”
I can’t find them anywhere (or are they not for sale in small numbers)

There is always tradeoff between the capacity of a cell and its maximum power output.

Tesla use the best energy density cells and therefore really push the limits of power drawn from each cell, this means they have to properly cool everything and it could impact on cell life. Tesla appear to have a really good understanding of cell cooling and cell-life (because they have researched everything) and therefore cell life is well understood and is a total non-issue for them. Tesla are engineering driven.

Nissan/Renault etc use super-safe, low energy density, high power cells and they only draw moderate power from them, they hope this means they can get away with minimal cooling systems and also will greatly extend cell life with minimal testing. They play it safe and minimise R&D costs. They are car assemblers who do a bit of R&D here and there.

tosho
4 years ago
Reply to  James

When you have a large battery pack you have to draw/push much less power from each cell to achieve a good input or output of the pack compared to a smaller one. There is no “secret” or “really good understanding” to Tesla’s battery packs. Both supercharging without degradation and the high output are a direct consequence of the large cell count in the pack

James
4 years ago
Reply to  Pedro Lima

I don’t think I articulated my point very well.
Totally agree about C-rating of cells
But there is tradeoff between maximum continuous C-rating of a cell and its energy capacity

A Tesla 85D has 96S 74P battery pack, each cell has a capacity of near to 3400mAh and a recommended C-rating of 3C https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_S#Specifications

A Nissan leaf has a 96S 2P battery pack, each cell has a capacity of 33Ah and a recommended C-rating of 7C

They both have similar pack voltages under load of ~360V

An 85D draws max 311kW from the pack, which is 863A at the pack and 11.6A per cell, this is a 3.4C discharge.

A Leaf draws max 80kW from the pack, which is 222A at the pack and 111A per cell, this is also a 3.4C discharge

However the tesla cells are exceeding their recommended continuous discharge rate of 3C and the leaf cells are nowhere near their recommend continuous discharge rate of 7C.

This is why a Tesla battery needs liquid cooling and lots of testing and good engineering
and a Leaf pack can be very simple, cheap to develop and cheap to manufacture

Val
4 years ago
Reply to  James

James,

look at NKON.nl

James
4 years ago
Reply to  Val

Wow really good website (in europe as well)
Have you bought from there before, did everything go ok?
They have NCR18650B (3.4Ah) for 3.50 euros each

Sia
4 years ago
Reply to  James

That is why a Leaf is as cheap as $25,000 while a Tesla Model 3 will be at $35,000 (this will be the 42 kWh model and not the 60 kWh model which starts at $45,000). The average Joe doesn’t have that $10,000 to pay for a Tesla. And the Leaf is much more reliable than the Teslas will ever be.