How much do you want a Zoe with 300 km range?

Renault Zoe in white

Current Zoe’s drivers are being asked by email to say how much are they willing to pay to get a bigger battery that will give a 300 km real range.

Renault also wants to know if clients prefer to pay for the battery exchange with a one time fee or by a monthly battery lease increase.

The last question is if clients are willing to pay 5.000 € for the battery exchange. This seems excessive since they will have to continue to pay the scam monthly battery lease forever and that LG Chem batteries have one of the lowest price per kWh in the world.

Why doesn’t Renault asks how much clients are willing to pay to own the battery and end the lifetime lease?!

This poll is both good and bad news.

The good is that Renault actually has intentions of making the new 40-44 kWh battery compatible and available for older Zoes.

The bad is that they don’t know yet what the plan is. But making own the battery near impossible and make clients slaves to battery lease payments to RCI seems already decided.

 

It’s a good time to see this very informative lecture again.

 

 

 

More info:

http://renault-zoe.forumpro.fr/t7841-sondage-renault-changement-batterie

This Post Has 17 Comments

  1. Pues no se francamente en que piensan estos Franceses, los clientes NO quieren alquiler de batería y segundo tiene gracia las preguntas ¿Cuanto esta dispuesto a pagar de más?. Otro dato que no me cuadra con 44kwh netos de batería “espero que sean netos” veo muy complicado hacer 300 km reales de autonomía, dudo mucho que en carretera a 90km/h este Zoe baje de 15kwh/100km, 15×3=45kwh tal vez en ciudad si lo podria lograr…….Muchas gracias Pedro lima por la información.

    1. Renault considers that the Zoe R240 has a real 170 km range in the summer. The R240 has a 26 kWh battery with 23,3 kWh usable.

      R240 with 300 km range:

      300 km / 170 km x 23,3 kWh = 41,12 kWh usable

      300 km / 170 km x 26 kWh = 44,88 kWh total

      The Q210 will get a little less range since it’s less efficient.

      To get 300 km range it would have to double the current battery capacity, since Renault says the range of the Q210 is 150 km in the summer.

      2 x 22kWh = 44 kWh usable

      2 x 26 kWh = 52 kWh total

      1. I believe in changing for an extended battery when the “rental” period is complete.

        It would be nice to have a new battery “now” with double capacity, but the extra cost is not affordable. I believe that after te battery lease contract there will be alternatives, even extended capacity, both from Renault or from competition.

        We are in the early days, and it will be amazing when a “efurbished” Q210 will actually have duble range than a “mid-life” R240.

      2. There is no such thin as “complete rental period”. I had a Twizy and after the 3 years I was not given the option to purchase the battery, only to rent it further, or after some big struggles to return the battery. The official Renault answer (in Spain): “A car that has been bought with the buy/lease schema (car/battery) will ALWAYS remain that way.”

      3. Seems to me like the EV1-Trap reloaded by Renault. (no, I did not forget)
        You cannot buy the significant part of the car. Renault Bank can decide how expensive driving electric is for you. If you don’t agree you get a piece of trash. For me that’s abuse of their power. I won’t buy only a half car.

      4. Does the poll state 300km real range or 300km NEDC range?

        Getting a 40+ kWh battery upgrade for around €5,000 would be very interesting for me, especially since we don’t lease the battery in Norway.

      5. It’s 300 km real range. It will be 420 km NEDC.

      6. My 3 years old Zoe goes 180km in summer. In winter it range is between 130 and 150km, depending on driving style. It would be great, to get a double sized battery. Together with 43kW charge power, the usability is much better than the most other as charged EVs

  2. Renault just needs to wake up and smell reality. There’s absolutely no reason or arguments to support battery leases anymore. Technology evolved immensely and degradation keeps on getting lower. They are loosing clients as we speak by keeping this strategy, and what maddens me the most is that Zoe is a hell of a great BEV!

  3. Well that is it for me. I was waiting to see if a Zoe would appear with a larger battery. It seems it will but at a scam price. Therefore I will likely get instead a 30kwh Leaf that will suit 95% of my travel requirements. For the rest will have my VW GTE for the long travel days.

  4. I haven’t seen that letter here in Norway. Actually, the Zoe r240 fits my usage pattern perfectly as it is. If my usage pattern changes, I might want to change the battery, but as of now, I don’t.

    I think Renault should focus their efforts at developing a extensible platform for large BEVs. Based on that platform, they should be able to easily push 400 km real-range cars to market. Like for example a Grand Scenic.

  5. @sapcmc Ehm….. They send end out a questionaire to ask what the market would like to see, in France (totally different financing option and state subsidies there), and you’re already in the “THEY WANT TO SCAM ME!!” camp? Interessing. In another forum I already saw people conclude Renault was offering (nope) to replace (nope) the current battery with a 44 kWh one for UKP 5.000 PLUS a lease increase (not what the French questionaire suggested at all) SCAM!!! SCAM!!!

    In the mean time, the Zoe was the best sold full EV in Europe (wink wink, I assume that includes the UK) in 2015. I would have to believe they did something right.

    1. I am not a fan boy so I have my right to have an opinion. I didn’t call Renault a scammer company and won’t. That does not mean I appreciate their policies.

  6. This is my SPECULATION on upcoming model range by Nissan-Renault-Smart:

    C-segment: Nissan Leaf – 60 kWh – 96s3p of 55 Ah cells by LGChem, likely with a parallel model to keep the current 30 kWh variant. They keep ChaDeMo charging for all markets: Japan, US, Europe to encourage further use of ChaDeMo. And to introduce 100 kW ChaDeMo charging, which will actually translate to 200A peak charging at 400V DC =~ 80 kW peak. Quicker charging and longer range due to lower drag are then their selling points when compared to Bolt EV. The 30 kWh battery+drivetrain may remain as their low-cost alternative for all markets. For compact class, 100kW charging makes sense for use on longer trips.

    B-segment: Renault Zoe ZE – 40 kWh -96s2p of 55 Ah cells by LGChem, likely with a parallel model that keeps current 26 kWh.
    They keep the 22/44 kW AC chameleon 3p charging for Europe. Zoe will continue not to be offered in US oder Asia.
    Charging is “good enough” for occasional medium range trips.

    A-segment: Smart Fortwo ed – 19,4 kWh -93s1p of 55 Ah cells by LGChem
    Eventually, Renault Twingo ZE with the same parameters, chassis and drivetrain.
    Optionally equipped with CCS charging 50 kW. They drop the Brusa AC 11/22kW charger in the Smart for reasons of space and cost and non-US-feasibility of 3p charging.
    CCS Type1 for US market, CCS Type2 for Europe. Model not offered in Asia. Chargers around carsharing fleets may be converted from 22 kW AC zu 20 kW DC CCS. New chargers will have 50kW along highways.

    Reasons:
    * all three of them would use the same cells (and similar to Bolt, which are cheap and also made by LGChem, but with different dimensions for Renault-Nissan compatible with their existing batteries) => brings costs down
    * discharge rates come out nicely, battery power and engine power are at a good ratio
    * charging rates come out nicely as well
    * overall development costs/efforts remain feasible
    * there is an upgrade path for customers : Smart/Twingo -> Zoe -> Leaf. Smart being an entry-level but upperclass image alternative. And a small city car as its Fortwo version.
    * overall battery design from current Leaf is taken over, but changed from 96s2p to 96s3p, but with thinner cells in roughly the same space
    * overall battery design from current Zoe is taken over and remains with 96s2p
    * overall battery design from current Smart is taken over (93s1p) but adapted to the LG cells (Li-Tec will remain closed probably)
    * all effective range figures increase over previous models
    * Twingo/Smart is designed as entry model to ease customers buying their first BEV and as a fighter against Chinese cheap BEVs, which will come to Europe and the US sooner or later.

    Again, all this is just speculation, however based on educated guessing.

    1. I would add there the Smart ForFour EV on the same segment of ZOE. It’s the one I’m most anxious for, besides Tesla Model III…

  7. That’s how I calculated the LG cells for GM.
    60 kWh/288/3,7V = about 56 Ah.

    And I guess, this report makes the same assumption. The LG Chem pouch cells **for the Bolt EV** are 56 Ah.

    Bolt pouch cells (by LGChem) are:
    100 mm high x 338 mm wide. I do not know width so far.
    Current Zoe pouch cells (by LGChem) are:
    135 mm high x 325 mm wide x 11,2mm think, 860g
    Current Leaf pouch cells (by AESC) are:
    216 mm high, 290 mm wide, 7.1mm thick, 799 g

    Therefore while I used the assumption, that Renault-Nissan will get a size with equivalent Ah the Bolt, the actual cells will probably be of other dimensions. But these differences in dimensions could then cause Ah to be different as well.

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