Lecture about Renault Zoe and its future

 

Nice information about Renault Zoe in this lecture.

 

What can we extract from this video?

LG Chem’s cells have a nominal voltage of 3,75 V, most NMC cells are rated at 3,7 V.

The battery has 192 cells, each with 36 Ah capacity. 192 x 36 Ah x 3,75 V = 25,92 kWh

The current Zoe’s cells have low energy density. 157 Wh/kg and 275 Wh/L. There is wide scope for increasing its capacity.

Renault’s next step for the Zoe is a 40 kWh battery.

Current owners are promised to be able to upgrade their batteries.

 

My thoughts about it.

 

I already know the latest available LG Chem’s cells have 65 Ah and weight less than a kilo. I expect the next Zoe’s battery to have 46,8 kWh (192 x 65 Ah x 3,75 V) capacity in total and around 42 kWh usable. The weight will increase, but not much. The current 36 Ah cells weight 0,86 kg, the 65 Ah cells weight a little less than 1 kg. In a 192 cell battery, this means that the new battery will be almost 27 kg heavier.

Since the new cells are already available, the only thing that prevents a new battery for the Zoe today is the lack of competition in electric cars. I expect the new battery arrive next year, will probably be announced in March at the Geneva Auto Show.

The new 65 Ah cells from LG Chem will make possible 3 different battery configurations:

96 cells (all in series) will supply 23,4 kWh (21 kWh usable) for low range EVs, like Smart ED or Twingo ZE.

192 cells (groups of 2 in parallel) will supply 46,8 kWh (42 kWh usable) for mid range EVs, like Zoe.

288 cells (groups of 3 in parallel) will supply 70,2 kWh (63 kWh usable) for high range EVs, like Chevrolet Bolt or Nissan Leaf Gen 2.

 

This is the technology available today. Automakers just have to feel the need to use it.

Carlos Ghosn, CEO of the Renault-Nissan alliance said several times that he wouldn’t lead the electric revolution but would be ready for it if it happens. Who will make him take the next step?

 

Tesla Motors please bring the Model III as soon as possible.

 

 

More info:

https://books.google.pt/books?id=iEmdBAAAQBAJ&pg=PA132&lpg=PA132&dq=renault+zoe+36ah&source=bl&ots=zyZQuMh2IH&sig=w_sR9PhmyL41nDOeUOHgk0IV38o&hl=pt-PT&sa=X&ved=0CEcQ6AEwA2oVChMIrKq9q-L7yAIVgT0aCh3CHAEL#v=onepage&q=renault%20zoe%2036ah&f=false

Pedro Lima

More than natural resources, are wasted human resources that bothers me the most. That's why I'm a strong advocate of a society based on cooperation, not competition, that helps every individual to reach his full potential so that he can contribute back to society. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs".

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3 Responses

  1. Ralf K. says:

    You should keep in mind, that cells, even of the same type and manufacturer, can have differing dimensions.

    As said in the lecture for Zoe: “LG, Pouch cells,
    325 mm x 135 mm x 11,2mm”

    As said in the Bolt EV specs (as of yesterday at Detroit):
    LG, prismatic pouches, 338 mm x 100 mm

    This size difference will also lead to differences in the Ah (amphours) of the cells. Thus, it’s not mandatory for an OEM to use the 65Ah cells, that LG already has created. Depending on volume, he can require different sizes. Especially for new vehicles. For existing vehicles, this might fit into the dimensions of the battery case, or it might not.

    My recommdation to you: include cell dimensions wherever possible in your analyses.

  2. Pedro Lima says:

    I agree with you Ralf.

    For electric cars we have limited space for batteries, so cell’s dimension is more important than weight.

    I didn’t put any information about the cell’s dimension because I don’t have it. What can I say is that the second generation NMC cells (LG Chem and Samsung SDI) are approaching the volumetric density of NCA cells that Tesla Motors already uses. Around 650 Wh/L, the double of what is used in first generation electric cars, excluding Tesla Motors of course.

  3. Ralf K says:

    I do not mean volumetric density of a cell alone, but actual dimensions in mm. Whenever someone promises/demonstrates a new cell, it’s good to know the actual dimensions. Whenever you do know/find/research cell dimensions, please publish them as well together with your (very welcome) speculations, educated guesses and outlooks.

    Taking into account cell/module packaging (and therefore dimensions) would just make your educated guesses even better. 🙂

    BTW: My guess is that rising Wh/l or Wh/kg or Wh/EUR will not only be used for more kWh in battery packs. This seems to be the only direction that your analyses focus on: more!

    But instead it will also be used to offer BEVs at about the same price level as ICE cars. BEV batteries may still be only 14-20 kWh per car, but at least they will get considerably cheaper and somewhat lighter. As soon as new electric cars (M1) are sub 12k EUR (battery included), people will be interested, and sales will rise, even with their current range of 100-120 km. As soon as L7e light vehicles are within 6k EUR (battery included), demand will rise as well. Therefore, the main challenge is in getting the entry price down for a reasonable M1 car, at least in my opinion.

    I wonder why OEM-converted cars like e-Golf, e-Up, Focus electric are so expensive, when they share so much (in terms of common parts, assembly lines, logistics) with their ICE brothers.

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